Straydog <arthures@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>visualseep...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
[brevity]
>> The real economy may perhaps be anywhere from 10 to 30% of quoted GDP.
>> The more an economy becomes 'developed', the more the books are cooked.
>> Finally you to the point where you have the US producing little but
>> claiming a 15 trillion dollar GDP.
>
>I think, for whatever reason, you are (like BPOking) focusing only on
>the USA. The fact is that Japan, UK, Europe, Canada also have a lot
>of "business" tied up in these "fake" economic/finance tricks and
>processes.
>
>And, you should be paying attention to the fact that every other
>developing country is trying to emulate all of this. China and India
>are expanding their financial markets and following everything else
>already developed in the west. Those stock markets have whipsawed
>around quite a bit in the last two years, too.
>
>> This fake accounting being promoted across the world must come to an
>> end. The only way it can is if currencies are backed by precious
>> metals and commodities and there are audits of these claims by the
>> UN.
>
>I have probably done more reading than you about this and I'll tell
>you that the reality is not that simple. There are other people out
>there that prefer metalic standards but there are disadvantages that
>are serious and any kind of switchover to such a currency would be
>just as dangerous and destructive of the existing economies and there
>would be zero reason to switch, especially if the reason is based on
>an ideology that is no better than say Cuba's communist economy.
Just wrote this: http://www.jhwh.be/~joshb/aksie/newretailbanking.txt
That describes a pure trade fiat money, that still allows for private
retail banking businesses.
The thing that you all are missing, I think, is the coupling between
money and speculation. This coupling should be removed by effective
laws, and a dedicated investment sector private/public has to take over
the task of investment.
This retail banking system proposal consists of a central government
owned retail bank. Member banks offer a retail service *only*, for a
fee. These retail banks can not make loans or investments anymore.
That, right there, meets the most essential task of money: a medium
of exchange, a store of value.
The economy is churning along happily and merrily. No bank scares,
no fractional reserve legalized fraud. Money is money, and the
banks facilitate its exchange, and that's great and we pay them for
it. Because they don't gamble it is incomparably more easy to police
them. They compete to keep the cost of their service in check, just
like we have with all the other industries. Perfect money system
IMHO: simple, reliable, predictable. What more do we need for money
in its exchange role ? If you can name it, a retail-bank may provide
you with that service if you want to pay them for it.
Metal as official currency is not the answer, note that metal is already
an unofficial currency because it is simply a barter item. Once you
monetize one metal, what you're effectively doing is building a fiat
money out of a certain type commodity. It is then a blend between
fiat and the commodity. This can be useful against counter-fitting,
because it is costly to create gold, and it makes the value of the used
commodity jump up. But ultimately it is still a political decision that
creates the money, and it is hard to formulate Government policies using
a commodity money. You will probably end up having to confiscate the
metals every time things go bad, and that is difficult in international
trade. Fiat money is much easier. As long as it is managed properly.
That is not happening right now: gambling for profit.
The decoupling of retail banking from gambling means:
1. The gamblers are no longer to be found in the money exchange system.
Money is 100% fiat and 100% reserve currency. Both the Government is
secure in its sovereign financial power (can print/destroy/re-new as
needed), and the People are secure in their accounts because the banks
can't so generally won't be gambling and have 100% of the currency to
redeem all accounts.
3. You open up the ability to shape the investment sector from scratch.
This is vitally im****tant. You don't want for profit speculators
trading money simply because they control money (of someone else),
because the money goes to abusive bosses where it is most profitable.
If then the old gamblers have lost the money they play with, you can
set up both public and private (per permit) investment mechanisms.
These can then be politically judged as to their useful results in
the real world. `What have you funded and is that something we
(the People) want ?' Exchange money goes round and round through
the system: the services/goods go one way, the money goes the
opposite way. Like a giant dance of the entire society: everyone
meets its needs for capacity to buy goods/services by meeting
someone else's needs in exchange for money. This mechanism is
different from investment which acts like a pump: pump money in,
then pump it out, and then see what has been achieved. It does
not go round and round (the coins become part of the dance, but
the investment deal is still a pump: goes in, goes out, can be
zero sum if for 0% interest).
You can do that investment pumping in a number of ways. The worst
you can do is leave it to free markets like it is now, and to
retail banks and insurers. They will invest it where it makes
highest return on investment, and they don't (can't) care about
the real world effect of their money in/out pumping. They will
invest it with people-abusers, until society collapses from their
abuses. The finance institutions will also become populated with
people abusers themselves. This is why war does never seem to end
on Earth: the worst people are constantly at the helm.
A Government investment pump: The Government extends a sum of money
as a capital tool. A group of motivated people who seem to want
to achieve certain aims in the economy that are useful can take
that money as a loan if they sound credible. Can be at 0%, or at
5%, or at -5%, whatever one may want to do. They then go on
pumping it in and out, thus achieving the side-effects. For instance
some new businesses were funded with the credit, who then repaid, and
the end of that is the existence of some new businesses, and that is
a result. Another result is a number of people having a home mortgage
and therefore somewhere to live, while the money is slowly coming
back out. There can be some losses and there can be some profits
as a side effect of the investment in/out pumping. These can be
dealt with in several ways as well. If it was a Government pump
presumably the cost or loss will go the the Government. If it was
a private pump, one would have to presumably prevent the investment
pump to start favoring abusive bosses again somehow, thus there can't
be a profit for private investment pumps into business upstarts
(unless one can be sure that doesn't happen or hasn't happened).
That is the useful side effect of investing, where the principle and
end-total of the invested sum is irrelevant.
This would all work. It would be incomparably more simple
then the chaos we have today, and all the gambling going on.
Decouple money from gambling, 100% reserve requirement and dedicated
money exchange retail banking on the one hand, and a separate and
dedicated investment pump mechanism. That investment mechanism falls
into two categories: consumption/mortgage credit where there is no
"fund abusive bosses" danger, and a business-upstart/expansion credit
system where you do have to combat that potential danger somehow.
One giant financial cancer tumor global parasite that we now have,
would become 3 streamlined sectors: exchange, consumption-loans,
business-loans.
The exchange sector has a private and a public part: the competing
retail banks that do bank account accounting and the Government
central bank. The consumption-loan sector can be either all private
(as long as they don't do business loans), or all public, or both. The
business-loan sector can be either all public, or all private under
a permit control, or both. The public investment part can also invest
into the varies private investment businesses and thereby influencing
the actual economy from a greater distance. Which may be useful
because Government is so extremely powerful, if it indirectly invests
through private investment schemes who in turn invest in the actual
economy, the Government power is tempered by the time it reaches the
actually productive economy.
--
_ _ /_\ _ _ http://www.jhwh.be
sign petition for Democratic
\ /v`vvv\ / Authorities Ventures Investments Demarcations
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