On Mar 30, 10:59=A0pm, ro...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:33:02 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Kraus
>
>
>
>
>
> <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >On Mar 29, 3:20=3DA0pm, forbisga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >> On Mar 29, 1:03=3DA0pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >> > On Mar 29, 2:57=3DA0pm, forbisga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
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> >> > > On Mar 29, 12:46=3DA0pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:=
> >> > > Capital is a necessary part of progress. =3DA0A hamer is capital.
> >> > > If you use a hammer to build something you are using capital.
> >> > > Capital makes labor more efficient. =3DA0There's nothing wrong
with=
> >> > > being a capitalist only with being greedy.
>
> >> > A hammer isn't Capital. =3DA0
>
> >> You should learn some economics.
>
> >> > A hammer is just a tool. =3DA0
>
> >> Tools are capital goods.
>
> >> > It can be provided free of charge. =3DA0
>
> >> No they cannot. =3DA0They are manufactured. =3DA0Manufacturing
> >> involves labor. =3DA0Do you hold that labor should be provided
> >> free of charge? =3DA0That goes beyond voluntarism and to
> >> obligation.
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> >> > Money need not be involved. =3DA0
>
> >> The distinction is between capital goods and financial
> >> capital.
>
> >> > If you want to work hard
> >> > to make money to help your family, or have a nice house, that
doesn't=
> >> > make you a Capitalist. =3DA0
>
> >> If I hire labor and exchange access to my capital for a percentage
> >> of the profits I am a capitalist. =3DA0If I gain nothing from the
> >> exchange but merely lend my capital and eat the wear and tear
> >> I lose in the exchange and anyone saying I'm greedy for building
> >> capital rather than consumer goods is just greedy themselves.
>
> >> > Capitalism IS Greed, insofar as it is
> >> > Capitalism. =3DA0If you aren't interested in making money as an end
i=
n
> >> > iself, then you aren't Greedy, and you aren't a Capitalist.
>
> >> I intend to make money by producing capital goods, why shouldn't
> >> I? =3DA0I'm helping others feed their families more efficiently.
> >> Why shouldn't I be rewarded for helping people?
>
> >> >=3DA0If you think Capitalism is simply any productive activity, then
> >> > you have simply been brainwashed by pro-Capitalist propaganda
> >> > into thinking nothing can be done without money, and that
> >> > Capitalism is all good. =3DA0It isn't. =3DA0It's just greed. =3DA0
> >> > Productive people needn't be Capitalists.
>
> >> Anyone who rents capital is a capitalist. =3DA0We're in this
> >> together. =3DA0I see what people will need to be more productive
> >> and produce it. =3DA0Even if I wanted to just sell it to them
> >> they can't all afford it and I have to feed myself. =3DA0I'm not
> >> about to spend my time helping others if I can't survive
> >> or have to do my subsistance work then be call greedy for
> >> anything I do beyond that that is mutually beneficial.
>
> >You are defining all criticisms of Capitalism out of existence, by
> >claiming that all good things are Capital. =A0This is nonsense.
>
> ??? =A0No, it is your "reinterpretation" of what he has plainly said
> that is nonsense. =A0There is simply no such claim in what he has
> written, and nothing resembling such a claim.
>
> >And, I suspect you know it.
>
> And I suspect you know you are lying about what he has plainly
> written.
>
> -- Roy L- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations
"The invisible hand
There are two im****tant features of Smith's concept of the "invisible
hand". First, Smith was not advocating a social policy (that people
should act in their own self interest), but rather was describing an
observed economic reality (that people do act in their own interest).
Second, Smith was not claiming that all self-interest has beneficial
effects on the community. He did not argue that self-interest is
always good; he merely argued against the view that self-interest is
necessarily bad. It is worth noting that, upon his death, Smith left
much of his personal wealth to charity.
On another level, though, the "invisible hand" refers to the ability
of the market to correct for seemingly disastrous situations with no
intervention on the part of government or other organizations
(although Smith did not, himself, use the term with this meaning in
mind). For example, Smith says, if a product shortage were to occur,
that product's price in the market would rise, creating incentive for
its production and a reduction in its consumption, eventually curing
the shortage. The increased competition among manufacturers and
increased supply would also lower the price of the product to its
production cost plus a small profit, the "natural price." Smith
believed that while human motives are often selfish and greedy, the
competition in the free market would tend to benefit society as a
whole anyway. This was later adopted as a universal principle by the
laissez-faire economists of the 19th century."
Capitalism is Greed based economic activity. If you want to invent a
new economic system called "Privatism", be my guest. No one will know
what you are talking about, because the term is meaningless. The
pursuit of Capital as an end in itself is Greed, as Adam Smith noted.
And that is the basis for Capitalism.
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