On Mar 31, 7:50=A0am, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Mar 30, 11:02=A0pm, ro...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:35:06 +0100, a...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(PeterBP) wrote:
> > >Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > >> On Mar 29, 3:20 pm, forbisga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > >> > On Mar 29, 1:03 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > >> > > On Mar 29, 2:57 pm, forbisga...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > >> > > > On Mar 29, 12:46 pm, Jerry Kraus <jkraus_1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:=
> > >> > > > Capital is a necessary part of progress. =A0A hamer is
capital.=
> > >> > > > If you use a hammer to build something you are using capital.
> > >> > > > Capital makes labor more efficient. =A0There's nothing wrong
wi=
th
> > >> > > > being a capitalist only with being greedy.
>
> > >> > > A hammer isn't Capital. =A0
>
> > >> > You should learn some economics.
>
> > >> > > A hammer is just a tool. =A0
>
> > >> > Tools are capital goods.
>
> > >> > > It can be provided free of charge. =A0
>
> > >> > No they cannot. =A0They are manufactured. =A0Manufacturing
> > >> > involves labor. =A0Do you hold that labor should be provided
> > >> > free of charge? =A0That goes beyond voluntarism and to
> > >> > obligation.
>
> > >> > > Money need not be involved. =A0
>
> > >> > The distinction is between capital goods and financial
> > >> > capital.
>
> > >> > > If you want to work hard
> > >> > > to make money to help your family, or have a nice house, that
doe=
sn't
> > >> > > make you a Capitalist. =A0
>
> > >> > If I hire labor and exchange access to my capital for a
percentage
> > >> > of the profits I am a capitalist. =A0If I gain nothing from the
> > >> > exchange but merely lend my capital and eat the wear and tear
> > >> > I lose in the exchange and anyone saying I'm greedy for building
> > >> > capital rather than consumer goods is just greedy themselves.
>
> > >> > > Capitalism IS Greed, insofar as it is
> > >> > > Capitalism. =A0If you aren't interested in making money as an
end=
in
> > >> > > iself, then you aren't Greedy, and you aren't a Capitalist.
>
> > >> > I intend to make money by producing capital goods, why shouldn't
> > >> > I? =A0I'm helping others feed their families more efficiently.
> > >> > Why shouldn't I be rewarded for helping people?
>
> > >> > > If you think Capitalism is simply any productive activity, then
> > >> > > you have simply been brainwashed by pro-Capitalist propaganda
> > >> > > into thinking nothing can be done without money, and that
> > >> > > Capitalism is all good. =A0It isn't. =A0It's just greed. =A0
> > >> > > Productive people needn't be Capitalists.
>
> > >> > Anyone who rents capital is a capitalist. =A0We're in this
> > >> > together. =A0I see what people will need to be more productive
> > >> > and produce it. =A0Even if I wanted to just sell it to them
> > >> > they can't all afford it and I have to feed myself. =A0I'm not
> > >> > about to spend my time helping others if I can't survive
> > >> > or have to do my subsistance work then be call greedy for
> > >> > anything I do beyond that that is mutually beneficial.
>
> > >> You are defining all criticisms of Capitalism out of existence, by
> > >> claiming that all good things are Capital. =A0This is nonsense.
>
> > >Jesus ****ing crist, the man has just correctly refuted all of your
> > >points on a line-by-line basis and you sweep all of that away with a
> > >single line without adressing his points?
>
> > Correction: a single transparently false line.
>
> > The amazing thing is, he evidently assumes his readers will just
> > believe him rather than trust their own reading comprehension skills.
>
> > -- Roy L- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Economists are largely propagandists. =A0Thus, the continued assertion
> that all progress is based on "Capital", no progress is possible
> without "Capital", everything is "Capital", all goods are "Capital",
> all activities are "Capital".
Not all goods are capital. There are capital goods and
consumer goods. Capital goods are used in the production
of other goods. Consumer goods are put in the hands of
the end cosumer who does not use them for further production
(other than to the extent that food is used to fuel one's
body.)
> Just saying it, don't make it so, I'm afraid.
>
> Obviously, if everything is "Capital", then we are all "Capitalists",
> by defintion. =A0So, there ARE no other economic systems.
To the extent one produces based upon one's own capital one
is a capitalist. Most of us are capitalist to a limited
extent related to our retirement and to our futzing aroud
the house.
|
