On Sun, 27 Apr 2008 13:33:11 -0400, Doug Houseman wrote:
> In article
> <441f18af-5797-496b-b6a1-f4a3895d89f1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> Bret Cahill <BretCahill@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> Lots of people in industry and finance probably have these numbers in
>> the backs of their minds but they should be explicitly stated, even if
>> it requires burying the text with footnotes.
>>
>> What would be the time to retool a major plant for an engine?
>>
>> What would be the time to build nuclear power plants, PV plants,
>> battery plants, biodiesel farms and "refineries" with a significant
>> output?
>>
>> Markets work and work fast but . . .
>>
>>
>> Bret Cahill
>
> It is the industry estimate that the Nuclear plants that are in the
> permitting process will not come on line prior to 2020. In China - new
> Nuclear plants take 5 years - design to operation - in the western world
> is it closer to 12 to 15 - mostly legal and environmental hearings and
> paper work.
>
> The new expansion of the Detroit Marathon refinery from initial plans to
> completion will take approximately 7 years when complete in 2010.
>
> Sighting windmills and getting permits takes 3 to 5 years in the US
> right now - and it is growing as people begin to protest them.
> Production in most plants is backlogged 3 to 4 years - even with
> companies like GE doubling production every 12 to 18 months.
>
> Conventional solar cells take pure silicon crystal as a starting point -
> the New Dow plant to make them in Michigan has taken 4 years from
> initial permit requests to permission to build - it may be another 2
> years before there is significant output - this is the bottleneck for
> most new conventional solar cell production.
>
> Most farmers say that it takes 3 to 5 years from clearing the land until
> a new field hits full production - they need to balance the soil and
> match the production method to the field in Northern climates - tropical
> is different - in 3 to 5 years most fields that were rain forests are
> burned out.
>
> The last time Toyota did a major engine plant overhaul - from start of
> the design of the engine thru testing and then production it was 7 years
> - Ford and GM take about the same amount of time.
>
> Building an ethanol plant in the million gallon range in the US takes a
> year or two for permitting in rural areas and another year to 18 months
> to build.
>
> If we really wanted to clear away all the legal stuff and go fast, we
> could do things faster - but the companies that make the pieces that are
> needed to make the plants would have to have the ability to expand too,
> many of them have moved production off shore. We would also need to
> expand the base of engineers and scientists as well as quality control
> people.
America simply needs to adequately reward the producing segment of the
populous; to ****ft economic gain from the lawyers, politicians, land
owners, and financial weenies to the actual producers (Engineers and
scientists as well as technicians and labor) for America to be a
productive nation again.
"Trickle Down", Republican economics is a failure. That does not mean that
we need another FDR. It does mean that we need a more producer oriented
tax and transfer system.
--
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org/extend
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